I believe it has been stated that as more businesses come to Loudoun, the tax base will shift from residential to commercial.

CC Mojo, that's what the opt-outers like to do. They like to ignore solutions to problems and instead scare people into dropping the project entirely. This can be made to work for us.

Joe if you have issues with making sure we are not grossly over charged for the project I respect that. My feeling is however that the project is too important to jeopardize it. You can not make the entire county suffer over politics. If people abuse the money that is being spent on the project, we should use our legal system to hold the law breakers accountable, but you don't scrap the entire project.

Take a look at MWAA Chief Financial Officer Andrew Rountree's information sheet that showed up in a WAMU Q&A article on June 17, 2012. MWAA thinks you should pay $168 million for your parking garages. I think MWAA is counting the Rt 772 North garage cost twice, because the error is very close to its listed price (which is 1.7 times what it should be, by the way). And MWAA is definitely thinking that we should pay twice for the Rt 28 parking garage, even though its cost is also 1.7 times what it should be. You just can't make this stuff up!

Notice that these errors always cause the estimates to rise. Hmmm.

Eyeing Dulles Toll Road For Silver Line Funding
WAMU, June 17, 2012
http://wamu.org/news/12/06/17/loudoun_weighs_silver_line_options_part_three

(from this article)
MWAA Answers DTR Questions
http://www.scribd.com/doc/97295925/MWAA-Answers-DTR-Questions

The first dot-point of the MWAA sheet includes an extra $37.7 million for Loudoun County parking garages, and includes an extra $53 million for the Fairfax County rail station and garage costs.

Funny thing about Twitter and any social media site... nobody bothers to Tweet things like "Normal commute, read the news on my way, got to work on time plus my favorite bagels are here" #DC #HatersGonnaHate #IThinkLoudounIsGreatToo

Yet, oddly enough, that happens, and that's why people continue to use Metro.

CC,

Another true story from unsuckdcmetro.com:

Just a few weeks ago I was walking toward the DuPont Circle/South entrance to board a train and I saw a group of six or so thugs standing in front of the only working down escalator. It was obvious what they were doing. ... and when people tried to get past them they called them racist and sexist names, rubbing onto the women who tried to ignore it and hurry past them. There were at least two cops who I saw watch this happen five or six times who just turned back away from the thugs. Two minutes later the thugs moved slightly, so I got up and went for it. they got in my way, so I told them to move, they did, but then got behind me and rode the escalator behind me, threatening me and calling me "cracker." I realized finally there was a cop right behind them, they realized it too and told me I was only saying something because he was there. They were only saying something because there were four of them, and I told them that and laughed at them. They continued to say the same two lines of BS at me, and I continued to not be afraid and tell them how their lives are garbage, they'll always be garbage, and I pitied them. The entire time the cop would look at me and motion to not say anything, all the while he stood there silently. This idea of "containment" is a joke, the cops are facilitating these thugs by not enforcing the rules the same way. ...

http://unsuckdcmetro.blogspot.com/2011/01/more-lenfant-violence.html

Just a quick look at twitter or facebook and it is easy to see that people post more negative stuff than positive. Rarely is there an audience for the everyday normalcy in our lives, so of course twitter is filled with hate for metro.
And are you really trying to say that crime will only happen at metro stops? That "thugs" (what does that even MEAN?) will gleefully hang out at the new stops waiting to harass us? so tired of the fear mongering, it is getting old....find a new approach.

Real people sharing their stories about their experiences on Metro is fear-mongering?

It's reality-mongering.

Click on the link. The excerpt pasted above is just a small piece of the whole sordid story. And that story is just one small piece of the hundreds of stories of crime, inhumanity, incompetence, waste, and worse.

The name of the website, is "UnsuckDCMetro." It is filled with poor schmucks who are stuck riding Metro. They do a fantastic job of detailing the various ways that Metro is bad. Their archives go back to 2009.

Take a look at it.

http://unsuckdcmetro.blogspot.com/

This is Metro-Reality.

I'm going to start a website called UnsuckTacoBell.com because they NEVER get my order right. Then, I'm going to campaign against Taco Bell and use those horror stories to scare people into never eating a bean burrito again.

If Metro is built to Loudoun, will the sheriff's office come and force you to ride it?

You can find crime everywhere, not just metro stations so continually claiming it will bring crime here to LC is indeed fear mongering. And to base ones opinion of metro on one website written by a handful of people is absurd.

Also, this MWAA chart contains another interesting error. It seems that MWAA is propagating an old FTA error. Don't they have independent cost review PBOCs? Maybe not.

The first dot-point of the MWAA sheet (that was apparently provided by Mr. Rountree) says "Assumes Fairfax secures $236 million for the Route 28 station and two parking garages and Loudoun secures $168 million for three parking garages."

OK, '$236 million for the Route 28 station and two parking garages' - let's look at those numbers. The July 3, 2011 FTA White Paper said that the Rt 28 station would cost $136 million and the two parking garages (Rt 28 and Herndon) would cost $53.5 million and $51.4 million respectively. That would add up to $240.9 million, but I assume that the MWAA sheet is approximating the garage costs at $50 million each.

The thing is, MWAA's Chief Financial Officer should know that the Rt 28 station costs $83 million, not $136 million. The $136 million figure came from a mistake by FTA in its July 3, 2011 White Paper; it was the total of the $83 million Rt 28 station cost and the $53 million Rt 28 parking garage cost. So now it seems that once again, these shady groups are counting the Rt 28 parking garage cost twice.

$136 million cost for Dulles Rail Rt 28 station per July 3, 2011 FTA White Paper (see line item 4 on Page 2, which is sheet 3 of the pdf)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/metro/documents/Dulles_Rail_White_Paper.pdf

$83 million cost for Dulles Rail Rt 28 station per Fairfax County Executive Griffin, August 3, 2011:
http://www.bruhns.us/civic/DullesRail/2011-08-03-Fairfax-County-RT28-Station-Cost-Confirmation.pdf

I'm not sure what the extra $37.7 million is in the Loudoun County costing in that MWAA sheet. Maybe they expect Loudoun County to pay for the Rt 772 North garage twice? Because they sure seem to be expecting Fairfax County to pay for the RT 28 garage twice! Maybe it provides money for some overseas junkets for the MWAA Board members? All I know is that somebody sure likes to pad these figures.

You just can't make this stuff up. People, you really need to call the cost estimating analysts out and demand to know what is wrong with the cost figures you are being handed!

I understand. You hate us for fighting a ripoff of regional proportions, you wish we couldn't, and you don't realize that people will still have a long commute out of the western part of the county even if a rail station is in Ashburn instead of Rt 28. It's nothing new to me.

Union Station in the morning, no. Into DC, yes, occasionally. Usually I drive. One time I took Metro from Vienna. It's good for getting to some areas of DC.

Why can't people take those shuttle buses you mentioned, from Rt 28 or Herndon? Or Wiehle Avenue, for that matter. Especially if bus lanes are put into the rail right of way from Wiehle to Ashburn and beyond? Aren't you really just suffering from 'Train on the Brain'?

And you talk about Jobs Jobs JOBS. Jobs that will be going away because the federal government spent more than it had, like you want us to do here. Heck, it worked so well for Greece, Spain and Ireland. We can go bankrupt too.

Scrap the train. Go bus. You KNOW you have to go with bus anyway, with two stations on the east side of the county. And without the rail robbing you blind, you might actually be able to afford the bus system you need. You have some of it already. You can only fool yourselves into believeing that you can pay for rail, by fooling yourselves about the costs. You put on blinders, you pretend that you will not be paying for the parking garages at Rt 772 and Rt 606, you look only at the initial construction costs and some maintenance costs, you ignore the tolls that you will be subsidizing, you ignore the deferred WMATA maintenance you will be paying, you ignore the tunnel expansion you will be funding, etc. It would be a good idea to take a real look at the costs some time - maybe before you sign this bad agreement.

Kent
Cause that was my only point about wine county. Glad you focused on it. Its not feasible to send them to Falls Church or Union Station. Its just one reason of how it benefits the west.
People don't commute east b/c we don't have JOBS out here. Its about building commercial tax base which the jobs follow.
You are wrong on it not being a viable solution - its the only solution to move the amount of people in this area today and in the amount here in the next 10-20 years. The bus system could never support it not now or in the future.
The roads will be at level F service with our without metro - which means - you need another solution to move people.

If her car breaks down, she doesn't have to wait for the Silver Line to get to work - she can take this bus right now.
http://www.loudoun.gov/index.aspx?NID=221

Bob, if I recall correctly, you don't live in Loudoun. Am I correct? I'm continually confused as to why you're so concerned about a decision that primarily affects Loudoun citizens. It is the Loudoun BoS' decision and theirs alone. The tax burden is on us, as Loudoun citizens. Yet you continually bombard these comment sections on topics that tangentially affect you at best.

She can take a bus and be late to work as a result. And thank you Chris I don't see why he is so interested either. I also don't understand his refusal to give a straight answer. Looking at the comments above you can see that he certainly comments a lot and reads what people are saying. Yet any time someone asks him he will change the subject or simply not answer at all. It makes you wonder doesn't it?

Wait until you are paying billions of dollars for this ripoff, and you have yet another tunnel delay at Rosslyn. And then complain to me about the bus.

If you put dedicated bus lanes in the rail right of way, this project could be much more affordable, and the bus would be no worse time-wise than rail would be. The buses could even run on electricity. But you don't care, because you have 'Train on the Brain'.

You still have not answered my question. And I do care. I have taken buses and I have taken the Metro. I have found my experiences with the Metro to be much more efficient and enjoyable. You can make up as many cute slogans as you want, it does not invalidate my opinion.

Why do I care that this rail project is a gigantic ripoff? I answered that already.

1) I care because this second rail ripoff will hurt me too. I live in the Phase II area, a little more than a mile from Loudoun County's eastern border. Those tolls will go up and stay up because of Phase I alone, but here comes Phase II to make the situation worse by dumping even more huge repayment costs onto the toll road users. This will result in unacceptable costs for working people for whom the rail line does not provide usable transportation. Maybe they live a bit northwest of the rail line and work just a bit southeast of it. In the name of progress, they will be forced off the nice wide toll road and onto side roads 24-7. This will make access to the rail stations less than ideal. I thought this plan was supposed to help congestion? But it seems that the story changes day by day.

2) The cost of the rail project is bloated. The overall price is two times what it should be, and this is confirmed by the excessive costs of the few items that escaped from MWAA's cover-up, and were revealed by the FTA in its July 3, 2011 White Paper.

3) The FTA bungled one cost number enormously (making it higher of course), and failed to notice the excessive prices it listed in its July 3, 2011 White Paper.

(continued)

4) A recently discovered MWAA report bungled prices for Loudoun and Fairfax County - also making them higher, of course. Interestingly, one error exactly duplicates an FTA mistake.

5) The financial work by MWAA and FTA is sloppy, and the fact that FTA and MWAA made exactly the same $53 million mistake with the Rt 28 rail station cost suggests that their analysis was not independent. Forgive me if I don't trust these agencies.

6) The news media has been very cooperative by covering up the $53 million FTA and MWAA blunder in the cost of the RT 28 rail station, by covering up the double price of this rail project, by covering up the US DOT audit of this rail project that began in March 2012 (although it reported the ones that began in 2011 and 2009), and now by covering up the MWAA $37.7 million blunder in the Loudoun County parking garage costs. It was also very cooperative by instead highlighting one economist's questionable financial projection of money gushing from office buildings and paychecks because of this rail project.

7) I have a serious issue with government, business and news media collusion resulting in an entire region being ripped off, particularly when I live right about in the middle of the region.

So: I care because I live around here, I will be affected, and I don't like ripoffs.

By the way, I also care because I know that the tolls will be paid down by huge borrowing that will add 50 to 70 million a year to our taxes for fifty years. Also I know that WMATA has $13 billion in deferred maintenance, and they will be knocking at our door for that money too. And I know that we will be paying for additional tunnels at Rosslyn after repeated delays there get people really upset.

In other words, I also care because the costs - even as bloated as they are - are still not being fully reported. Not even close. And our business and political 'leaders', and the news media, are covering that up as well.

Melvin
I dont' know. I can totally see the thugs riding the metro to Loudoun county - then breaking into our homes and carrying our TV's and other valuables back to the metro - to then ride the Metro back towards the east to where ever they reside with our valuables on there laps.
I agree - its one of the more ridiculous things against rail I have heard thus far.

I have to laugh at the comments about crime, stating that it opens up the "richest county in the country" to all of the thugs from DC. On average, yes Loudoun is wealthy. But there are pockets of DC, Arlington, Bethesda, etc. that are FAR wealthier than Loudoun. People are kidding themselves if they think it's more tempting to travel on Metro to Loudoun to rob someone instead of just stealing from the rich in their own backyards. Don't kid yourselves, we're not that attractive of a target.

It's not like there is anyone to rob in DC or anything. People who are going to commit crimes will do them regardless of the Metro. I don't think there's a big problem with people doing this on existing trains. This is not the first Metro to be built. Metros have actually been shown to lower rates of crime, not increase them. This is nothing but a scare tactic.

Joe has a point here - it is a near-necessity to get Metro to Loudoun - but this funding model that MWAA has been pushing is not optimal (and there has been plenty of shady behavior from that entire clown circus that continues to unnecessarily jeopardize this project). Funny that MWAA/Feds has "laws" that prevent them from charging tolls on the access road, or a Dulles station surcharge to actually have the Dulles station Metro users paying something towards construction and maintenance, but then uses a funding mechanism to screw commuters instead... MWAA shouldn't have a say in this process outside of what is happening on Dulles Airport proper - including managing it - but it's not enough to justify derailing the entire process/project either (this should have been dealt with prior to Phase I approval - and Phase I and Phase II should have been combined and the project done all at once - but that is hindsight now).

MWAA was put in charge to take control away from the People, and put it in the hands of crooked political hacks, who then proceeeded to hand us double prices that I have shown are about 1.5 Billion dollars high just for Phase II. Former Virginia Governor Tim Kaine and the MWAA bunch gave us premature rail at bloated prices, instead of the dedicated-road bus system that we needed.

I have shown that these prices are about a Billion and a half dollars high, and recent evidence indicates that there was not independent review, because MWAA to this day shows the same numeric error that FTA did in the price of the Rt 28 rail station. Both agencies added the parking garage cost to the station cost and listed it as the station cost. MWAA now appears to have done this twice - at Rt 28, and also at Rt 772, because they show an extra $37.7 million for the Loudoun County garage costs, and that difference matches the Rt 772 North parking garage cost pretty closely. MWAA is flat-out unbelievable!

Is it really likely that the FTA and MWAA would both make the exact same mistake on the Rt 28 station cost, if they were in fact doing independent analysis? Shouldn't they use separate consultants? How did they both make this exact same mistake? Shouldn't we call the consultants out on this RIGHT NOW?

Just in case you haven't noticed, $1.5 Billion is a huge overcharge! I suggest that we take a look, and see just exactly where that money is supposed to be going.