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LTE: Thoughts Regarding Fourth of July Celebration

Reader John Mileo discusses the signing of the Declaration of Independence and Thomas Jefferson himself.

 

Thoughts to Ponder about our July 4th Celebration

On July 4, 2012, our country will be celebrating the 236th anniversary of the signing of the Declaration of Independence; our testament from a people who had the courage to stand up against tyranny in their pursuit of liberty for all. 

Thomas Jefferson, one of this highly revered document’s signatories, was also its primary author or “framer.” 

It is interesting to note, that this same distinguished countryman is often hailed as a hero of sorts for having coined the phrase “Separation of Church and State” that is so often touted by the Beltway/NOVA Atheists, as its mantra for advancing their “anti-religion in America” cause (or is that solely its “anti-Christianity” cause?). 

However, with that in mind, it should also be recognized that ole Tom, affixed his signature to this very document with his full knowledge of its three references or allusions to “God”, once by that very name, itself and twice with the words: “Creator” and the “Supreme Judge of the world.” 

In conclusion, I would like to borrow a line that is often heard over our airwaves by Senior Pastor Lon Solomon of the McLean Bible Church, as he ends his thought provoking sermon- like plugs with the phrase: “Not a sermon, just a thought.”

John Mileo 
Lansdowne, VA

Related Topics: Declaration Of Independence, Fourth Of July, Independence Day, Letter to the Editor, and Thomas Jeffereson

SRJ

10:32 am on Friday, June 29, 2012

What was Thomas Jefferson's favorite color?

This letter implies that because Jefferson wrote in a manner that was popularly accepted knowledge at the time, Virginians are required to endorse one sect's supernatural beliefs at taxpayer expense. Of course, there is no logic at all to that argument, which is why the writer made it through implication rather than declaration.

The author fails to note that Jefferson was also a dedicated rationalist and scientist who, like many before him, created his own Bible (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible), though Jefferson's was for moral and philosophical contemplation rather than for superstitious practice.

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Dave Butler

12:14 pm on Friday, June 29, 2012

It's also true that Jefferson picked the word "Creator" on purpose. It was specifically not a reference to the Christian God (or any other religion's supreme being). In order to have "unalienable rights", they have to be given by someone (or something), therefore a reference to a "Creator" was required. This is one example. In any of the "God" examples, if they meant "God", they would have said "God".

The Declaration of Independence was not about enshrining God into government. It's purpose was to condemn both King George, specifically, and the idea of succession by birth, generally. The idea that no one is born "better" than another was a pretty new concept then and needed explaining. The Revolutionary War itself was fought primarily for economic reasons. The Founding Fathers were angry that England kept putting restraints on our trade.

In short, Jefferson was strongly in favor of "a separation of Church and State" every step of the way.

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Rick Wingrove

12:21 pm on Friday, June 29, 2012

The Declaration of independence is not the Constitution. Nor does it advocate for christianity.
The actual document founding the United States is the Constitution.
The Constitution is a secular document start to finish. This was no accident. It was discussed at length and those who thought the United States should be founded as a christian theocracy lost the debate. The Constitution excludes all mention of Jesus, God, or Christians.
But it goes much further. The constitution PROHIBITS any special consideration, special rights, or special privileges for any religion. The Constitution also PROHIBITS any religious test for any elected office.
The Constitution is a diagram for the formation of a government designed to provide equal rights and equal protections for all citizens, regardless of their opinions on bronze-age deities. This is the strength and the genius of the Constitution and a founding principle of the Constitution.
Separation of church and state is woven into the very fabric of the Constitution. Any reference to any religion or any mythical deity is conspicuously and purposefully absent in the layout, design, and description of any of the offices or powers under the Constitution.
There is no reading of the Constitution which advocates for christianity or that provides any special rights or privileges whatsoever for your religion or its adherents. We are all equal citizens under our Constitution.
Sorry, John, but your religion just ain't in there.

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John Mileo

2:06 pm on Friday, June 29, 2012

My letter does not suggest that Thomas Jefferson's three references to God, was an effort on his part to endorse or promote a particular religion or spritiual belief, be it Christian-- based or that of any other faith. Nor was I suggesting that the Declaration of Independence represented "the laws of the land" which are clearly set forth in the Constituion of the United States; and neither was I implying that Jefferson was "enshrining God into government."

All I was seeking to point out is the interesting paradox that Thomas Jefferson, who as the key framer of this document would affix his signature to it given those very references to a supreme being or to "any" God, if he himself , was the strong non-believer that he is so often described as being.
And Rick why always the focus on Christianity? There are a good number of other relgions that are being practiced out there that fall under the same umbrella of "God"!

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Rick Wingrove

2:44 pm on Friday, June 29, 2012

First of all, it is not christians so much as it is christianists.
Like the Framers, we don't think any religion should have undue influence over government, nor should they have the power to treat government as an extended ministry or as a tool to propagate and perpetuate exclusionary and divisive bronze age mythologies. I'm sure you would feel the same way if it were islam or buddhism.
In our case, it is local christianists who are intent on using local government to endorse their religion by awarding special status, special rights, and special privileges to local adherents. It is local christianists who insist on marking government property, ignoring Constitutional constraints, and inciting religious bigotry. It is local christianists who have now awarded themselves special access to proselytize on the Court House lawn while prohibiting and excluding all others.

That would seem to be pretty much the opposite of what the framers intended.

In this case, our focus is on "christians" because they are the ones doing this. This is not being perpetrated by Jainists. If it were, we would be equally opposed.

So, John, why isn't church property a better place to sell church doctrine? Why the insistence on using government property? Why do you need government endorsement for your magical beliefs?

Rick Wingrove

2:10 pm on Friday, June 29, 2012

In all of our dealings with the BoS, in every comment, in every email, in every speech, on our lawn displays, and on our website, we speak in defense the Constitutional principle of Separation of Church and State.
We have never used those fora to suggest that people are not entitled to their privately held beliefs. Our only message has been that government should always be neutral on matters of religion and must not be an agent of evangelism.
Nevertheless, we continue to hear pronunciations incompatible with the truth from local christianists who apparently find that such a moderate approach doesn't support their "falling sky" narrative. Christianists need villains, so our defense of the Constitution gets characterized as an attack on Christianity. But, it just isn't.
Consider: if the facts don't support your case, maybe your case doesn't deserve support. If the truth doesn't work for you, you might need to do an ethical recalibration. And, if you think that facts have a liberal bias and are of no consequence anyway, you may be morally bankrupt and probably cannot be relied upon to behave rationally or responsibly.
Just sayin'.
Atheists think that facts matter and we insist that they be accommodated in the dialogue.

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John Mileo

3:03 pm on Friday, June 29, 2012

Rick, I wasn't expecting a thesis nor do I wish to get into a debate here on the issues you are raising, but instead what like for you to try to focus on the one point I was attempting to make about Thomas Jefferson's signing of the Declaration of Independence. Do you find it the least bit curious that he would make any reference whatsover, to a God given his purported disbelief in a diety? Do you even see any irony in this, as do I?

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Rick Wingrove

7:03 pm on Friday, June 29, 2012

Actually, what is ironic, and more than a little bizarre, is how feverishly christians try to drag Jefferson into their camp. I assume you've heard of the Jefferson Bible. Jefferson rejected the divinity of Jesus. The god he referred to was the god of nature - a generic Creator in the style of Deism. Jefferson was certainly not a christian. And you may have noticed that Jesus was conspicuously missing from the DoI.
Jefferson was a deist and his mentions of a natural deity were more figures of speech than allegations of existence.
Three things: Jefferson's opinions on the existence of deities, like your own, are just opinions with zero evidence to support them.
Secondly, none of this has anything to do with the Constitution.
Third, if you read a little further down, you will notice that the government envisioned by Jefferson and the other signers (the word framers applies to the Constitution and is improperly used in reference to the DoI) of the Declaration, derives its powers from the consent of the governed, not from bronze age deities.

Kristen H

4:23 pm on Friday, June 29, 2012

I'm the godmother of my niece. I'm also an atheist. At her baptism, I took an oath to be her spiritual leader in case of my sister's passing. I did this with a wink and nod to my sister who, of course, knows I'm an atheist.

I say this because sometimes you do things for the greater good regardless of your personal beliefs. I think that everything else Jefferson and the other founders did to ensure that the Constitution did not impose any religion on citizens speak much more than a few references to God in the Declaration of Independence. I'm looking forward to celebrating those accomplishments on the 4th. I never thought anyone would try to bring religion into this holiday, but now I'll be sure to celebrate with a beer in one hand and a copy of Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists (http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/9806/danpre.html) in the other...Just in case.

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John Mileo

5:15 pm on Friday, June 29, 2012

Kristen. I totally agree with what you are saying with respect to our Constitution and the intent of those who wrote it. All I am trying to focus on is what struck me as somehwhat of a contradiction or paradox over the fact the very man who strongly supported and coined the phrase "separation of church and state" would draft the document that in essence was the pre-cursor to our Constitution, with three references to "God." And I am not stating here that he was specifying a God that is worshiped by any particular faith. Do you not see any irony in that , or find it a bit curious?

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Kristen H

7:22 pm on Friday, June 29, 2012

I think I've found the disconnect here. It doesn't matter to me what his personal beliefs are. As Rick stated above, they are their own matter of public record. However, it just doesn't matter to me. Honestly, if I had lived in the 1700s, when we knew much less about science and the universe, I might have been in church all day long.

What he did in government was good because he didn't bring his personal beliefs into it one way or another. That's why I missed the irony of someone who believes in a deity but keeps it out of public policy -- I just think that should be a matter of course!

John Mileo

5:20 am on Saturday, June 30, 2012

Kristen, Believe it or not, I think we are on the same page, at least with respect to Jefferson's effort in ensuring that the US Gov't would never move toward the establishment of a national religion as was done in merry old England. And you ae futher correct in stating that he did not push forth his personal beliefs in our Constitution, which is commendable.
All I was attempting to highlight is that , in my view, this same stance was not put into effect with respect to the "spirtual" references that are contained within the text of the Declaraton of Independence, that he framed and signed. I find that to be somewhat ironic.
And finally, I wish to point out that the views expressed by me in this column are solely that of my own as an individual ,and should not be construed as though I am speaking on behalf of any organization or entity, whatsoever.
Wishing you and yours a Safe and Happy 4th of July.

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